James Randi is the founder of the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF). Randi began his career as a magician, but when he retired at age 60, he switched to investigating[…]
What prompted the skeptic’s public crusades against Uri Geller, Sylvia Browne, and other self-proclaimed mystics?
Question: What first prompted your crusade against rnpseudoscience?
rn
rnJames Randi: Well, for one thing. As a magician—someone who rnprofessionally deceives people, but does it for entertainment purposes—Irn know two things with great certainty. First, how people can be rnfooled. And second, and that’s more important, how they can fool rnthemselves. And they do.
rn
rnNow magicians know this and they allow people to fool themselves, but rnfor purposes of entertainment. But I see the charlatans out there, the rnpeople on television who say they can talk with dead people. I too can rntalk to dead people, but do they answer? I think Shakespeare asked a rnquestion like that one time in Henry the something or other. The point rnis, people can be misled into believing there is a supernatural world rnout there. Now, there may be. I can’t say that there isn’t. But rncertainly what is being shown us on television and through the media in rngeneral by people like John Edward, for instance, and Sylvia Browne and rnother performers like this who say they have these supernatural powers. rn That is nothing like supernatural powers. There is nothing happening rnthere that the magician can’t explain. And that’s what got me so angry rnabout it because I saw lives being destroyed, I saw money being taken. Irn saw emotional security being damaged desperately.
rn
rnI had people coming to the James Randi Educational Foundation in rnFlorida, they sit in my library, and the sit down, they say, “But our rnmother has control of the book. She has the power of attorney and she’srn given all the money away to the faith healer, or to the fortune teller,rn the gypsy, or whatever, and what can we do? And the answer is, you rncan’t do anything. If she’s got legal control of it, she has a right torn do what she thinks is right with it. Now, she’s wrong in that rnsupposition. That is not what should be happening, in my estimation. rnPeople should be told the truth. They should be allowed to know that rnthey can be deceived. And the average person out there doesn’t realize rnhow easily they can be deceived by a clever operator.
rn
rnQuestion: What prompted your crusade against Uri Geller in rnparticular?
rn
rnJames Randi: Well for one thing, he obtained a very high profile rnback in the ‘70s, when he was [...], that’s Uri Geller, we’re talking rnabout—who says that he can bend spoons with his mind. Duh, every fool rncan bend a spoon, but with his mind? That might be a different thing. rnHe attained a reputation because he was tested at Stanford Research rnInstitute. Now, after hours, it was informal, the institute had nothingrn to do with actually testing him, but he was tested on the premises, andrn that’s where that impression was given rise to.
rn
rnEventually, a scientific paper was written up for Nature magazine by thern two rather naïve scientists who fell for the simple tricks that Geller rndid. He only has four tricks in his whole repertoire for the last 35 rnyears that I know of. And yet he’s done very well on them. He’s rnobviously made money in the trade over those years. And that’s okay, rnhey making money as an entertainer... but he tried to tell people that rnhe really had supernatural powers. That he came from, of all things—andrn this is his words and not mine—he came from a planet called Hoova, rnwhich apparently is a place where they get vacuum cleanas. I’m not rnsure. But he said this planet is way out there in the solar system, or rnbeyond the solar system, and that he came from that planet.
rn
rnNo he wasn’t. He was born in Israel just like everybody else was in rnIsrael. They are born the same way, of a mother and a father. He rndidn’t come from any mystical planet. Nothing like that whatsoever. rnBut these scientists who saw him and who apparently tested him. They rnactually didn’t test him, what they did was they allowed him to do rndemonstrations of what he did best. They wrote a whole book on him, andrn they reported to Nature magazine that it was the real thing.
rn
rnWell, I objected to that and ever since then I have been pursuing Mr. rnGeller. Now, he has changed his tune. He doesn’t want to be known as arn "psychic," he wants to be known as a "mystifier." Ho, ho, ho. What rndoes that mean? Well, it doesn’t fool too many people. You see, Mr. rnGeller has a problem; his problem is that he cost tens of billions of rndollars in research funds all over the world, from countries, from rncompanies, from various corporations, and individuals and universities rnwho spent all kinds of money testing what they called “The Geller rnEffect.” And they wasted all that research money, and time, and careersrn as well. So, if Geller now comes out and says, "Oh, I was only rnfooling. Yeah, that was a fib that I told you. I didn’t really come rnfrom the planet Hoova, and I can’t really bend spoons with my mind, I rnjust simply do it when nobody’s looking, you see." But if he were to rnadmit that, I think that the law would probably come down on him pretty rnheavily. Certainly some people out there would like some recompense forrn their loss of time and effort.
rn
rnQuestion: What pseudoscientific beliefs do you observe within the rnscientific community?
rn
rnJames Randi: Oh, well, such things as free energy for example. rnZero-point energy. Getting energy from no place. That’s... we used to rncall those perpetual motion machines, but now they’re given much more rnhighfalutin terms. But a lot of money is wasted on that. See, we have arn million-dollar challenge with the James Randi Educational Foundation, rnand that challenge says, “Do something that is paranormal, supernatural,rn or occult and you win the millions dollars.” The million dollars is rnthere, it’s with an investment house in New York City. All you do is rnperform as you say you can perform and you collect the million dollars. rn Now, Mr. Geller has never applied, for one thing. Sylvia Browne did rnapply. She was forced into it on a major television show some years rnago, and she’s been looking for me ever since. She apparently can’t rnfind me. She talks to dead people, and I’m alive, and she can’t find rnme. I’m in the phone book Sylvia, what’s wrong? But she says also thatrn I’m not a godly person.
rn
rnNow, I would think that Sylvia would think, maybe I’ll take this godly rnperson to the cleaners and take his million dollars. Now, it’s not my rnmillion dollars, it belongs to the foundation, but it is a million rndollars. It’s in investable bonds that is cashable, negotiable bonds. rnYou can change it into a million dollars overnight simply by selling thern shares. That’s all, and so it is there. It’s a million dollar prize rnand it’s a big carrot to wave in front of these people. Where are rnthey? They should be knocking at that door right now, as a matter of rnfact, I would think.
Recorded April 16, 2010
Interviewed by Austin Allen
rn
rnJames Randi: Well, for one thing. As a magician—someone who rnprofessionally deceives people, but does it for entertainment purposes—Irn know two things with great certainty. First, how people can be rnfooled. And second, and that’s more important, how they can fool rnthemselves. And they do.
rn
rnNow magicians know this and they allow people to fool themselves, but rnfor purposes of entertainment. But I see the charlatans out there, the rnpeople on television who say they can talk with dead people. I too can rntalk to dead people, but do they answer? I think Shakespeare asked a rnquestion like that one time in Henry the something or other. The point rnis, people can be misled into believing there is a supernatural world rnout there. Now, there may be. I can’t say that there isn’t. But rncertainly what is being shown us on television and through the media in rngeneral by people like John Edward, for instance, and Sylvia Browne and rnother performers like this who say they have these supernatural powers. rn That is nothing like supernatural powers. There is nothing happening rnthere that the magician can’t explain. And that’s what got me so angry rnabout it because I saw lives being destroyed, I saw money being taken. Irn saw emotional security being damaged desperately.
rn
rnI had people coming to the James Randi Educational Foundation in rnFlorida, they sit in my library, and the sit down, they say, “But our rnmother has control of the book. She has the power of attorney and she’srn given all the money away to the faith healer, or to the fortune teller,rn the gypsy, or whatever, and what can we do? And the answer is, you rncan’t do anything. If she’s got legal control of it, she has a right torn do what she thinks is right with it. Now, she’s wrong in that rnsupposition. That is not what should be happening, in my estimation. rnPeople should be told the truth. They should be allowed to know that rnthey can be deceived. And the average person out there doesn’t realize rnhow easily they can be deceived by a clever operator.
rn
rnQuestion: What prompted your crusade against Uri Geller in rnparticular?
rn
rnJames Randi: Well for one thing, he obtained a very high profile rnback in the ‘70s, when he was [...], that’s Uri Geller, we’re talking rnabout—who says that he can bend spoons with his mind. Duh, every fool rncan bend a spoon, but with his mind? That might be a different thing. rnHe attained a reputation because he was tested at Stanford Research rnInstitute. Now, after hours, it was informal, the institute had nothingrn to do with actually testing him, but he was tested on the premises, andrn that’s where that impression was given rise to.
rn
rnEventually, a scientific paper was written up for Nature magazine by thern two rather naïve scientists who fell for the simple tricks that Geller rndid. He only has four tricks in his whole repertoire for the last 35 rnyears that I know of. And yet he’s done very well on them. He’s rnobviously made money in the trade over those years. And that’s okay, rnhey making money as an entertainer... but he tried to tell people that rnhe really had supernatural powers. That he came from, of all things—andrn this is his words and not mine—he came from a planet called Hoova, rnwhich apparently is a place where they get vacuum cleanas. I’m not rnsure. But he said this planet is way out there in the solar system, or rnbeyond the solar system, and that he came from that planet.
rn
rnNo he wasn’t. He was born in Israel just like everybody else was in rnIsrael. They are born the same way, of a mother and a father. He rndidn’t come from any mystical planet. Nothing like that whatsoever. rnBut these scientists who saw him and who apparently tested him. They rnactually didn’t test him, what they did was they allowed him to do rndemonstrations of what he did best. They wrote a whole book on him, andrn they reported to Nature magazine that it was the real thing.
rn
rnWell, I objected to that and ever since then I have been pursuing Mr. rnGeller. Now, he has changed his tune. He doesn’t want to be known as arn "psychic," he wants to be known as a "mystifier." Ho, ho, ho. What rndoes that mean? Well, it doesn’t fool too many people. You see, Mr. rnGeller has a problem; his problem is that he cost tens of billions of rndollars in research funds all over the world, from countries, from rncompanies, from various corporations, and individuals and universities rnwho spent all kinds of money testing what they called “The Geller rnEffect.” And they wasted all that research money, and time, and careersrn as well. So, if Geller now comes out and says, "Oh, I was only rnfooling. Yeah, that was a fib that I told you. I didn’t really come rnfrom the planet Hoova, and I can’t really bend spoons with my mind, I rnjust simply do it when nobody’s looking, you see." But if he were to rnadmit that, I think that the law would probably come down on him pretty rnheavily. Certainly some people out there would like some recompense forrn their loss of time and effort.
rn
rnQuestion: What pseudoscientific beliefs do you observe within the rnscientific community?
rn
rnJames Randi: Oh, well, such things as free energy for example. rnZero-point energy. Getting energy from no place. That’s... we used to rncall those perpetual motion machines, but now they’re given much more rnhighfalutin terms. But a lot of money is wasted on that. See, we have arn million-dollar challenge with the James Randi Educational Foundation, rnand that challenge says, “Do something that is paranormal, supernatural,rn or occult and you win the millions dollars.” The million dollars is rnthere, it’s with an investment house in New York City. All you do is rnperform as you say you can perform and you collect the million dollars. rn Now, Mr. Geller has never applied, for one thing. Sylvia Browne did rnapply. She was forced into it on a major television show some years rnago, and she’s been looking for me ever since. She apparently can’t rnfind me. She talks to dead people, and I’m alive, and she can’t find rnme. I’m in the phone book Sylvia, what’s wrong? But she says also thatrn I’m not a godly person.
rn
rnNow, I would think that Sylvia would think, maybe I’ll take this godly rnperson to the cleaners and take his million dollars. Now, it’s not my rnmillion dollars, it belongs to the foundation, but it is a million rndollars. It’s in investable bonds that is cashable, negotiable bonds. rnYou can change it into a million dollars overnight simply by selling thern shares. That’s all, and so it is there. It’s a million dollar prize rnand it’s a big carrot to wave in front of these people. Where are rnthey? They should be knocking at that door right now, as a matter of rnfact, I would think.
Recorded April 16, 2010
Interviewed by Austin Allen
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